Chopin

Marcin Rybacki interviews Director, Jerzy Szkamruk

Well, we did the following interview somewhere in a crowded and noisy cafe in the centre of Warsaw. I wish I had had a gun with me back then. Would shoot that noisy coffee machine. Never mind the difficulties, I think we pulled it off and hope some of you will find it interesting. Definitely it's another look on Ian, but Jurek willingly speaks about Chopin and art & life in corporate Poland. First and foremost Jurek focuses on 'Chopin's Story...' and reveals some interesting bits about his cooperation with Ian.

Who came up with the idea of getting Ian Gillan for the project and what did you want to achieve by that?

It is a long story. The idea of getting a worldwide formula star as a narrator for the documentary had been evolving for a couple of years. We were to do a film about the salt mine in Wieliczka with Rutger Hauer, but nothing really materialised. Roman Rogowiecki was involved in that project and we were really close to make it happen. In the Chopin Year [2010] I asked Roman to find a person who would narrate Chopin's story in an entertaining way. We were considering a couple of people, but Roman was bent on getting Ian Gillan who received our film and developed a great liking to it. And so Ian became the narrator of our film.

I see. Tell me about your earliest recollection of Ian Gillan and are you aware of his side project?

Of course I'm aware of Ian's side projects. My earliest recollection goes back to a party in '78, maybe '77. At that party one of our friends lent us Deep Purple's 'Smoke on the Water' and in the morning to our despair we noticed the vinyl had a hole burnt with a cigarette in it. The friend who actually borrowed the vinyl couldn't face a confrontation with the owner, because he was afraid he'd lose his life. Then he went to the U.S. and never repaired his damage. In those days you couldn't get ahold of such a vinyl anywhere. All the hits were imported from abroad - they were true relics! We used to record them using reel-to-reel and our copies varied considerably in quality. Thirty years later I returned the vinyl to the friend who lost it back in '77. I gave it back and it had Ian's personal message on it. That caused consternation!

Fantastic! What's your favourite Gillan song? Is it 'Smoke on the Water'?

Yes, because it's a sort of a cult song. This song has accompanied us for our whole lives and we all know it. Even today, everywhere you are you can hear the riff. It is so special. Many guitar players were inspired to take up the guitar by this very riff.

That's true. Okay, we all know that film recording requires some sort of discipline. Was Ian disiciplined on the set as the presenter?

You bet, he was. Ian comes from a very firm branch of show business and we knew it perfectly well that if he copes on stage and in many different projects (the one in Gdansk with Baltic Philharmonics, his duet with Pavarotti and many, many more) he must be somewhat disciplined. It's no doubt, because years of working on stage, shape every human being. Apart from that, all the show businnes people, or people from what we call in Poland 'the West' are folks who succeeded thanks to the discipline and nothing else. Work, work and even more hard work!

Exactly. Ian recollects on your cooperation with a lot of warmth. How did you feel the work with such an artist as Ian was going for you?

I've said it before that I'm glad we did all the shooting before Deep Purple's concert in Katowice not after. It was in Spodek where it dawned on me how mighty Deep Purple and their music is. Owing to this seemingly unimportant fact, I treated my work with Ian as a laid back experience. Of course there is always stress because of various doubts, but after the first few takes it turned out Ian was very good on the set. He also swiftly memorised the narration text and learned to dance Oberek (Polish regional dance). There were slight mishaps on both sides but that's how it goes when you work on something that big for the very first time. I remember Ian had some objections when it comes to the script itself, because it wasn't written in the language he would have liked. Ian always paid attention to the English language. I remember him joking: 'If my English teacher heard this and not the other phrase, I would have my hands treated with a ruler.' That's the way it was both in Polish and English school back in the day. As you can see the old methodology of teaching is still carried out preserved nowadays. We didn't always keep up with Ian. The fact the script needed stylistic reworking was actually a waste of time. But I think those two were the only elements that shattered the harmony of shooting the film a bit - 'shattered' is not the right word, I'd say they made the work a little difficult. I don't know if we should say this to people, but on the other hand I think it's our common experience - Ian's and mine. Looking at things in a different way, the atmosphere in places where Chopin actually was, was very inspiring to Ian. I think it was for the better. When you're in places where Chopin was...

And you see what's going on around you...

And you see what's going on around you, you can see the surroudnings, architecture, scenery, folklor you yield to inspiration. Your imagination opens up and everything works better then.

Tell me how Ian reacted when he got to know about the project?

I haven't got a clue really. I sent my promotional film entitled 'Fryderyk 2010' to Ian. Roman was taking care of that, and he said Ian really liked the film and that he would like to work with us. I was really surprised that in our times, where everything is in a constant rush, and people are overwhelmed with their daily routines we got the swift answer from people who are well known. It was a great, optimistic feeling - Ian saw my film and liked it but first and foremost he wanted to do the narration.

Do you think Ian knew Chopin's music and his historical background before joining the project?

I know Don Airey visited Chopin's museum in Warsaw. While interviewing him he said he had tears in his eyes when he saw Frederick's original instrument ('Pleyer' piano) which is on display in Warsaw on Tamka Street. I think Ian knew a great deal about Chopin. As we know rock musicians are often influenced by classical music and you can hear it in their output. The phrases are mature and to the point. It's not like today's worthless disco. There's a lot going on in rock music - it can be varied, dynamic and nostalgic if need be. It's obvious rock music is very mature and it's not scrawled hastily.

Classical infleunces are especially evident in Deep Purple's music because of two former members Ritchie Blackmore and Jon Lord...

Exactly, but not only Purple. Many other artists got the inspiration from classical music and that's great, you know. A musician is mature when being aware what is musical, and not only rhythmic. Nowadays many young people are passionate about rhythm and this computer-generated 'tapping'. They think they have good fun with it, because nobody showed them 'real music'. They don't know anything about it which is a shame. Everyone needs to reach a certain point of maturity.

As a film director how would you estimate Ian's presence on camera, on the set?

Ian has had a great presence on camera. He is a mature man, calm and inspiring. When he put on the Burberry coat, or the clothes that were somehow alluding to Chopin's epoch he looked really elegant. He behaved like a proper British gentleman. I think that's what it is all about. When you present a modern show today it has to be done in a modern way. The shows you can see on commercial channels like MTV or VIVA are an entirely different thing. While narrating Chopin's story you cannot fool around, do some clown-like jumps in front of the camera, or make up for the lack of knowledge with gestures... There's plenty of information in our film and we needed to create appropriate mood with a credible narrator who when telling an interesting story would bewitch and also teach the viewer. You can't spoil the good taste of Chopin's music and the emotions embroidered in his art. Ian was talking about that in our film.

When seeing Ian in a new role for him what will the old fans experience?

Some kind of Ian's universality as a human being. The man who is mature, shaped by life and has had a lot of experience and considerable knowledge. I remember being young and all the older people, especially the parents, were saying rock was evil, and that it turned peoples' grey matter to the left. It turns out rock musicians have proper education and immense life knowledge. It wasn't what they were trying to talk into us back then. For instance, Brian May of Queen has a PhD in astronomy! All of the musicians are vastly characterised by positive divergence from the musicians of today, presenters or DJ's. I'm positively surprised by this fact and we have acheived what we wanted to in the first place.

What was difficult to achieve on the set?

Absolutely nothing. It just that we were kind of pressed for time.

Absolutely nothing?

I think the lack of money and time to do a more appealing documentary. We could do another episode about the times when Chopin went to France or even Great Britain because we know he was there too.

A similar question was asked by Joe Mennonna - the musician from Ian's solo band. Is there going to be another episode?

We'd love to. It's sad to say but as of now the film is unprofitable - nobody wants to pay for it (excluding IAM [Adam Mickiewicz Institute] as a coproducer). Polish national TV wanted to offer 1000 zlotys for broadcasting, whereas different shows about "How to measure an elephant" (you know whose) cost tens of thousands zlotys. We'll see, if everything's well, and if somebody comes up and says: 'we want to do this and we'll find the budget' I'll do another part with pleasure. Mallorca, Paris or London. These are great locations and I'm sure Ian would feel great there. After the experience we have had in Poland I think the other episodes would be as engaging.

I see. What was the criterion for the choice of locations and facts for the documentary?

It's not that we decide where to film on our own. We have a very limited influence over the choice of plans. As we know Chopin was a traveler. You can openly say that. He visited Poland and not only. In his youth Chopin visited the Poland of the day. He was nearly everywhere starting from the Baltic Sea up to the Tatra Mountains, from Wielkopolska (Great Poland) to Kresy (Eastern Borderlands). He was in many places and travelling was difficult back then - a ride from Warsaw to Gdanks lasted 5, 6 or even 7 days. We had to follow a different philosophy. The practical philosophy, because we wanted to show all the key places: Zelazowa Wola, Brochow, Warsaw, Plock and we also chose the open air museum in Klobka - in places as such Chopin got inspired by folk music. Nowadays musicians are also often inspired by folk music. But getting back to the main point, we were pressed for time and we had to make the the best of it. We weren't able to go to Kalisz, Duszniki or Cracow.

So taking into account the lack of time, do you think you successfully managed to present the Polish years of Chopin's life?

To a great extent, yes, I think. We showed another passion of Chopin's - the travelling. Jarek Killian wrote a fascinating script. As we know, Ian compares travelling through Poland to travelling in the 19th century England. We showed Chopin's inspirations and passion for music and his country. That was the main idea. We didn't want to and couldn't expand the film, because had we had such a possibility we could have shown all the places connected to Chopin and what the composer had gone through. For example in Duszniki he had his lungs cured as you know. That wasn't the purpose of this film.

I see. Ian is known to his fan base from his specific sense of humour. Did something particularly funny happen on the plan you could now tell his fans about?

Yeah, sure. But I can't remember now (laughs)

(laughs) Your favourite Chopin's composition? Or maybe there are many of them?

There are many but I think it all depends on the mood. Maybe Waltz Cis-moll Opus 64, sometimes 'Revolutionary Etude' and at times different pieces, depending on the mood. Chopin's music is beautiful but also difficult to listen to, because it should be appreciated in peace, and it's hard to find peace and quiet nowadays. I think we've learned to listen to variety of music, but Chopin serves as a kind of completion to it all - his music can soothe people.

From the people who have had the privilige of seeing your film, I heard they were touched by camera shots, especially aerial perspective. Do you often use this artisitic/aesthetic tool in your work?

Aerial shots have always made the film more eye-catching. They are sort of special, if they're nicely done. They show the world from other perspective, but you shouldn't overuse them. If there are too many of them it's not good, if there's too little it is also not okay. You have to have little luck to capture good aerial shots. You should get up very early and try taking the shots in beautiful light, every season. And you have to have good tools and the pilot who can fly low, because when you fly low you have great shots. As we know everyone prefers flying high, because then flying itself is safe. I'm going to try using aerial perspective in all my upcoming projects, but as I said, they cannot be overused.

Enough is as good as a feast.

Exactly.

What inspires you as the film director?

You ask tough questions. I'm inspired by a great deal of things. Interesting stories, landscapes, and realisation techniques. Unfortunately there's not enough money for most of the 'inspirations'. So i have to make the best of what I have at my disposal.

What made you choose film directing as...

Accident, sheer accident. I've done totally different things in my life. It didn't even occur to me that I could do films. But everybody says the films I do are not that bad so it's a kind of motivating to keep doing them.

Is there any film director, you particularly admire?

There are many of them.

If you had to choose one...

One director?

Yeah.

Just to relax and have a good laugh? Let's say Tarantino? (laughs)

(laughs) You are the director of such undergorund, non-commerical projects as 'Benedykt Polak', 'Fryderyk 2010' or 'Chopin's Story by Ian Gillan...'. Is it easy for you to reach a more broader audience, let's say the audience not familiar with high art, in corporate Poland? What are some hardships you've been facing?

It's not that people don't want... let's put it differently. The people who are soaked up by this corporate, ordered, seemingly simple and happy world want to spend their lives with smiles on their faces. Those people are not willing to accept difficult art, which for them is Chopin's music, because nobody taught them to appreciate music, no one has ever cared about their musical education. Why on Earth should they ponder on themselves and surrender to various mood swings? Corporations don't need that. We don't care about our souls' aesthetic qualities and we let ourselves to be manipulated - that's a tremendous mstake. Just see what's 'trendy' today. Free admittance shows of mediocre performers, beer & sausage, blaring synthesizers, and joyfull wobbling after consumption together. Yeah, it's nice. But this is not what it's all about, is it? That's why in our times it is very hard to promote a film like 'Chopin's Story...' because one common notion prevails. Namely, people think this music is reserved for the elite, which is simply not true. It's a pity than the need for good music is not recognised by schools, and most teachers listen to the same rubbish their students do. Is it hard to promote the film? I've answered the question already. It's very hard. As of now, the film was aired only on Discovery Historia and it's very hard to air it elsewhere, because only thematic TV stations are interested in the film. I don't know what's going to happen with the film. Maybe it'll end up on YouTube - and I wouldn't like that. We've been trying hard all the time to bring the film to the broader audience would see the film, I have a couple of people helping me, but you know, things happen all the time.

Which film do you consider your greatest artistic achievement?

I don't know (laughs). Maybe the last one. That's the easiest choice, but the film has some positive content in it and is graced with the presence of a special narrator. In a film, song, poem or book the important parts are: the beginning, the middle and the ending. However, the content is also important, and in our film the content is alright. Ian seemed to be one of the most interesting candidates to narrate Chopin's story because he is a colleague in the same line of work. I'd done general public scienece films, adventure films before and they can't be estimated from the artistic viewpoint.

I think the film bears two primary notions. One of which is obvious when Ian compares Chopin's piano playing to what Jimi Hendrix did for guitar playing.

Yes, for instance.

And the other less apparent that Chopin's music was inspired by singing...

I'm not the authority on this matter, but it's possible because Chopin was inspired by everything that triggered emotions: his homeland, folk music, birds singing, love, longing, happiness and unhappiness. It had to be that way and we know it from his preserved letters. So I don't think that Chopin was inspired by human singing only. This is a narrowing of Chopin's inspirations. He had his soul open, he was very sensitive. Had it not been like that he wouldn't be called Frederick Chopin but for instance Janko Muzykant. And he's not!

At the same time Ian's participation (a musician whose voice is the instrument) has been frowned upon by the orthodox Chopin's afficionados.

Strangely enough, no.

No?

I was afraid that people who quietely are called 'orthodox chopinists' tolerate Chopin only in the original sound. This is not entirely true, and there's one simple reason for that. Today's musical instruments are built differently and they sound notably different than those from 200 years back. The command of 19th century piano was different. Pianists would say that playing on such an instrument requires another technique. Nowadays the best pianists tend to practice for years just to play Chopin or List. They tour only the festivals but they also admit that their interpretations differ from the originals. There are no recordings from Chopin's times so we'll never know the way music sounded back then. How does it all relate to Ian? Thanks to him we have a new quality in the documentary discourse, because he is also a legend in a way...

I know you've faced a lot of problems when it comes to the release of the DVD with the film which you have stated. But fans all over the glove have been waiting for the one and only date. When will the film on DVD be available for general public?

Chances are that it'll be released in November.

In November?

I think so. We've had some conversations, and I can't give away with whom not to jinx it. And so I think the DVD will be available for general public in November. Those who'd like to have the film will be able to buy it.

A 10-minute interview with Ian will be included on the disc...?

Yes, a bonus interview done by Roman Rogowiecki on the set. The interview itself is great and Ian speaks about our country in a lovely way. Actually I've noticed he likes visiting our country...

He's always have since the first time he came here back in 1991. He got very positive vibes in Wroclaw and this may have made him come back somehow. He's got many friends here as well... He used to be mates with Tomek, who unfortunately...

Yes, he's no longer with us.

Do you feel fulfiled as the film director and producer?

No one knows it. It all depends on how fate will steer us and our projects that we've been attempting. Nowadays we live in constant uncertainty of tomorrow and we don't know whether or not will be able to start a new project, let alone make it reality. This work is not very profitable, you rather have to take things away, not accumulate them, but I battle against difficulties! We'll see, maybe one day I'll do a production that will fill me with great pride and let me fulfil myself. Although I think the film with Ian partly fills me with great hope, but I also feel unsatisfied because it's so hard to promote, that there are no people who'd invest some money to release the film.

Great. What does the future hold for you?

That's yet another difficult question. Maybe Nicolaus Copernicus, but we'll see what's going to come out of that. This is just wishful thinking. As we know, another wave of crisis is fast approaching... and films are just a bonus to life. Movies are not loafs of bread which allow us to survive. Some people have different opinions, though. Films like ours about Chopin allow to survive not only single individuals, but also the entire nation itself, because they have the spirit and 'power' of Chopin. They fill with pride and should serve as an example for others, but it's not always the case. You have to be tolerant of the times we live in, have lips sealed and not to be too apparent about it all. Just do your own thing.

That's for sure. Thank you very much for the interview.

Thank you!



Marcin Rybacki